We had Donna Dinsmore with us last weekend. She is superb! What a gracious and amazing woman! So gifted by God and a huge gift to us on the weekend.

I'm going to share some of my favourite "Donna" quotes from the weekend as she lead us to reflect on God, Us and Worship.
Upon asking 'who is God?', Donna said "and give me the real answer, not the right answer. We don't live out of right answers." I love that quote, "we don't live out of right answers." Donna went on to say what would you say to your neighbour who's dying of cancer if they asked who is God?


Then in terms of worship and Christian life, Donna asked is our Jesus fully human as well as fully divine? Are we fully human with Jesus? She used an analogy for worship of going to have coffee with Jesus - "If you had coffee with Jesus do you think he would want you to be real with him? Or would he want you to sit across the table saying 'Jesus you're high and lifted up. I glorify you. I love you. You are great.'" Would Jesus take delight in having his ego stroked? Or would he prefer that we were real with him, sharing our joy and pain, troubles, fears and victories with him? Donna used the analogy of parents with their children. Taking your child for a fluffy, do you want your kid saying 'I love you mummy and daddy. You're so awesome. I love you so much.' Or do you do you want to see your children loving the fluffly, enjoying life, talking with you about the great things of life, sharing their worries and concerns, even sharing when they're angry at someone or even you their parent!' She used the quote from Irenaeus - "The glory of God is humanity fully alive" What does it mean to be fully alive? And what are the implications for worship?

Here's an interview with Steve Tollestrup (Executive Director of Tearfund) about the "Peg" campaign (Hat tip Servant):

Why has an international development agency like TEAR Fund, launched a campaign about domestic child abuse?
For a start we are not out looking for more campaigns or issues. Right now we have so much to deal with in places like Dafur and the current monsoon floods in Asia. These are huge international issues we are dealing with. When we first heard of the Nia Glassie abuse case our immediate thought was to leave it alone and let other campaigners with a focus on New Zealand pick it up. But then it occurred to us, isn’t that just the problem? Isn’t it always left to others? We believe that justice is a seamless issue from Bangladesh to New Zealand, Calcutta to Wellington. Other International agencies like Save the Children and UNICEF have this view and we applaud them for it. Also one of our mandates is child rights and poverty, I believe through the Peg Campaign we are being congruent and aligned with that intention.
Can I also be clear, that this is not a TEAR Fund campaign. We’ve launched it and tried to give it legs, but hope this will catch on and become something of a public movement.

Why a peg?
Much of the abuse reported has happened in the home. Our homes should be safe places for our children. The peg is a clear symbol of the home and the need to ensure it is safe place for kids. It also is a clear reminder of the abuse Nia Glassie suffered. This campaign is not about Nia alone, but all the children who have faced abuse.
The peg makes the campaign simple to organise locally as well. You don’t have to go out and buy a peg, or be stopped on the street to purchase one. They are easy to get as well as attach to clothing. The idea isn’t original. I noted while watching TV news a young guy protesting in Rotorua covered in pegs. At first I was amused, then I saw what a powerful symbol it was.

How should the Peg be worn?
We are requesting that only one peg in an obviously visible place be worn- and with dignity: . Shirt, jacket, lapel, handbag strap, hat. We do not support children wearing the peg.

The Peg has had a negative response from some media, saying it is morbid and ineffectual, how do you respond?
It was never intended to be morbid or crass. In fact it never occurred to us that as a symbol it was. I am getting loads of email in support and very little negative feedback. But I will concede that looked at from one perspective, the peg is a troubling and disturbing symbol. But isn’t child abuse disturbing and shameful? Why hide this fact? I would argue that those who find it disturbing or shocking, are not so much offended by the peg, but the very reality of the abuse that it brings out into the open.
Also in New Zealand we have other disturbing symbols and campaigns Consider the Christian cross, as well as graphic ad campaigns to bring down the road toll or drink driving.

There has been a series of photographs circulating via email showing the injuries from child abuse on a dead child. Isn’t the peg sort of the same?
I was sent the photos and as soon as I saw them I shut down the email. They were ugly and disrespectful. Some images are just too damaging and almost paralyzing. It is for that reason, TEAR Fund doesn’t use exploitative images in fundraising campaigns. The peg never comes close to crossing that line.

Isn’t it an ineffectual campaign though, aren’t you just jumping on the bandwagon of the present hysteria?
There is no one simple solution to this problem of our appalling rate of child murder and abuse– the third highest in the developed world. There is a wonderful saying in India, that drop by drop a bucket is filled. The peg needs to be seen in this light, as part of a wider movement and outrage. I believe emphatically in the goodness and power of ordinary people to change things. What are we to do? Simply sit back and do nothing, simply trust the system? My observation is that people want to do something. This is a simple but powerful gesture. Also the peg carries a pledge to speak out. Our pledge, those of us wearing the peg, is to become more informed, and our web link points to resources for that. It also is a pledge to speak out and be advocates for the children in our sphere of influence. That is our responsibility – no one else’s.
If the bandwagon is about people in this country saying enough is enough then we are definitely on the bandwagon.

You mentioned that this was originally conceived as a specifically Christian campaign, what did that mean ?
Originally the idea was that the peg would be a symbol, worn by Christians as a sign of national repentance and recommitment to action on behalf of our nation. Jesus calls Christians to be salt and light in the world around us. The church and Christian community because of its pervasiveness is in a unique position to educate itself, speak out and intervene where and as appropriate. Christ said, “Let the Children come to me.” As his disciples we are all child advocates.

The campaign carries on until September 21st. Why that date?
The attitudes, values and pledge of the campaign don’t end September 21st but continue on. However the 21st marks the first day of spring and represents new beginnings and seems an apt time to remove the pegs.

What would you like to see happen?
I’d like to see everyone wearing the peg, getting this out into the open and discussing it publicly and resolving to be in some small way, contributing to and being part of the solution.

Campbell Live  

6 comments Posted by Andrew



Did anyone watch Campbell Live last night and see the item about Christians and the internet? It was very good!

What do you reckon about this quote from the show?

Think of the internet and you think of many things - but probably not God. And yet think of missionaries, whose calling was to spread the word to unchristian peoples wherever they might be. Two centuries ago, it was remote pacific islands... now, it's online.

Go here to watch the segment (you'll need broadband).


Tearfund have begun a campaign for people to protest about the shocking rates of child abuse in our country (go here to read more). To join, you simply wear a peg (read below to see why). I think this is a very significant issue that Christians should be involved in.
This is what Tearfund say:
THE PEG PLEDGE WEAR THE PEG AND SPEAK OUT.STOP THE VIOLENCE OF CHILD ABUSE

New Zealand is the third worst killer of children in the OECD.TEAR Fund is calling on people to show their outrage about New Zealand’s appalling record of child abuse by wearing a clothes peg and pledging to stand-up, speak out and stop the violence. The first campaign runs until the first day of spring on September 21st.The symbol of the clothes peg confronts us all with the national shame of Child Abuse and the memory of three year old Nia Glassie who among other things, suffered hanging from a clothes line before her death.Wearing the Pledge Peg ( we don’t sell them, just get one from your laundry ) provokes people to ask why are you wearing a clothes peg. That’s your opportunity to talk openly about our crisis of child abuse in New Zealand and explain that we are all advocates and need to accept responsibility for protecting our nation’s children. Almost every conversation with the Pledge Peg will end with the other person asking for a peg and joining the movement. The Pledge Peg can be a chain reaction. Carry some spares in your pocket.Take the Peg Pledge – Remember the VictimsEnd the AbuseBe informed 1. A UNICEF report has accused New Zealand of having one of the worst levels of child maltreatment in the developed world. OECD has listed New Zealand as the third worst killer of children among its members.2. There are 20 confirmed cases of child abuse and neglect in New Zealand every day.( ref: Ministry of Social Development report 2005 )3. Between 2002 and 2006 there were 88 child deaths in New Zealand.48 were Pakeha, 28 were Maori, 12 were ‘other’ . (Cindy Koro Children’s Commissioner quoted in the Sunday Star Times August 5th )Further information
NZ Children’s Commission www.occ.org.nz/
How did Jesus the Christ view children? He took a little child whom he placed among them. Taking the child in his arms, he said to them, "Whoever welcomes one of these little children in my name welcomes me; and whoever welcomes me does not welcome me but the one who sent me (Mark 9:36-37).


Then the people brought little children to Jesus for him to pace his hands on them and pray for them. But the disciples rebuked them. Jesus said, "Let the children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these." When he had placed his hands on them, he went on from there (Mat. 19:13-15).


People were also bringing babies to Jesus for him to place his hands on them. When the disciples saw this, they rebuked them. But Jesus called the children to him and said, "Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these. Truly I tell you, anyone who will not recieve the kingdom of God like a little child will never enter it. (Lk. 18:15-17)


A while ago there was a big argument because a couple wanted to call their baby "4real," after seeing the ultrasound scan and realising the baby was actually for real. They were regected though, becase the registrar said a name had to be a sequence of charecters.
So, they have now decided to call their baby Superman, but refer to him as 4real.

What are peoples opinions on this?! I think its pretty awesome; like having a really different name. But i dont know how realistic these parents are being....?!
Your thoughts.....

AFFLUENZA  

0 comments Posted by Andrew

Perhaps here is another topic....

Hat Tip to Servant.

Go check out Micah Challenge New Zealand and especially the Millenium Development Goals. In terms of things our young adults could get passionate about, I'd put these goals very high on the list...

Hat tip to Servant.

Repent!  

0 comments Posted by Andrew

My mate Ali, over Kiwi and an Emu, has sent me an e-mail about my comments on Calvinism and evangelism. He hasn't been able to work the comments function on this blog (perhaps by God's grace for me - by this I mean that Ali would have exposed me!). Ali thinks I've been a little too sweeping and general in my comments. On reflection, he's right and I apologise and repent. One of the hazard of my vocation is that you tend to shoot your mouth off and then apologise later. As Ali pointed out to me in an e-mail, Calvinism doesn't lead to the end of evangelism and many Calvinists are leading the way in evangelism. So, if I gave the impression that Calvinists aren't into evangelism, then forgive me - that's not true (and not what I wanted to say). I stand by my comments that I find the 'mysterious will of God' in Calvinism (where some are locked into heaven and some are locked out of heaven by God's will) very problematic. Ali made a very perceptive comment in his e-mail - "I think you'll find that if a person follows the system of Calvinism alone, then evangelism may fall by the wayside. However, if, as in the case of all the people I've mentioned above, they base their beliefs on the Bible, they understand Calvinism as presented with everything else the Bible talks about, including the need to spread the good news." For some middle ground, I suggested that perhaps there's a distinction to make: Calvinism in service of the Scriptures and not the Scriptures in service of Calvinism?

I don't want to get into a prolonged discussion on the blog about the merits or the problems with Calvinism, I simply wanted to allow a (Calvinist) friend's voice to be heard:-) Ali, I hope you don't mind me putting this on the blog... I posted it because you said you wanted to post this but couldn't. If you want it removed, just e-mail me - here I am again, shouting my mouth off then apologising later :-)

Young Adults  

1 comments Posted by Andrew

Stephen (a lecturer and recent PhD in Theology) over at Greenflame has joined the conversation on topics to help our young adults. He's posted some links to books and topics he thinks would be helpful. To keep the conversation going, do you have any suggestions...

My suggestion is to read one of the gospels, hear the words of Jesus and try, by his grace, to do what he says. I mean that simply but not simplistically. I reckon Mark's gospel would be good - short and punchy. For a resource I reckon Tom Wright's Mark for Everyone would be a good help. It will help you to know who is Jesus, what was his message, why did he die, what is his significance...

Don't you hate it when you open the fridge to make a sandwich for lunch and there's nothing to put on it. Our fridge that we got given from my parents is on the blink and we've spent the last 3 days defrosting it. So today when I go home for lunch and there's nothing in it! So, having had no breakfast, I was starving. I decided to bake some chips to eat - yum. After the hard work of cooking the chips, I was looking forward to devouring them. However, Miss 11 month Picard decided dad couldn't have them all to himself. So she came around scabbing as only an 11 month old can: Mr Picard had been given clear instructions from Mrs Picard Senior NOT to feed the baby... But who can deny such a cute kid, pointing to her mouth for food?

So, I slipped her a chip (or 2...) but Mrs Picard Senior caught Miss 11 month Picard chewing...

BUSTED!

A BUSY MONTH  

0 comments Posted by Andrew

August is going to be a busy but exciting month at Napier Baptist. We have a host of visiting speakers coming to our church and the Hawkes Bay. Being quite geographically isolated, having speakers coming in for other regions is pretty exciting for us

Our first guest is Donna Dinsmore:


Donna will be with us on Saturday 18th August and Sunday 19th August. She will be leading a conversation on worship on Saturday morning and leading our worship at Napier Baptist on Sunday morning. Donna was the Music and Worship Co-ordinator at Regent's College Vancouver for 9 years. She currently works as the Music Director and Organist at St. David's United Church. She's in NZ for a short season and I have never met her (but heard heaps about her). Some of our music team met with her at a conference in Auckland. To cut a long story short, they fell in love with her and she agreed to come to Napier for a weekend. It is very exciting to have someone of Donna's experience, quality and wisdom coming to our church. All I have heard about her from our people who met her is how brilliant and amazing she is - so I can't wait to meet her and learn and grow through her.

Our second guest coming to Hawkes Bay (but not directly to Napier Baptist) is Murray Robertson:


Murray is the Senior Pastor at Spreydon Baptist Church in Christchurch. Murray's a brilliant pastor/leader and has been at Spreydon for around 40 years (seeing it grow from 50 odd people to about 1500). He's coming to lead a seminar on "The Missional Church" (sponsored by the Hawkes Bay Baptist churches) on Saturday 18th at Pirimai Baptist Church's Cafe (1:30-5pm). He will also preach at our combined Hawkes Bay Baptist worship service at Hastings Baptist on the Sunday evening at 7pm.

Our third guest is Paul Windsor, Principal of Carey Baptist College:
Paul will be at Napier Baptist Saturday 25th and Sunday 26th August. Paul's brilliant! A great pastor, principal and friend. I'm really looking forward to him spending time with our church. On Saturday 25th he will be leading a seminar called 'Windows and Mirrors' which uses movies as a tool to see into our culture (window) and a way we can see ourselves (mirrors). The seminar will look at ways a Christian worldview engages with such windows and mirrors. He will also lead a 'missional audit' for our leaders on the Saturday night and preach in our 2 church services on Sunday 26th August.
Make some space in your diaries and I'll see you there...

We're starting a young adults group that meets once a fortnight. I thought it would be a good idea to have something where people can put up a few ideas for what we can discuss. Some I thought might be good are:

-Predestination
-Hell, literal or figurative?
-Is the bible inerrant?
-Maybe something along the lines of critiques of the Baptist church

Much appreciated if you could give feedback on those and also come up with your own ideas on what we could do.

Now here is some pretty powerful writing and mind-bending thinking with honesty, openness and questions of breathtaking proportions. The comments are worth a read too!

This is surely something to discuss or follow up at NapBap Young Adults?

Hat-tip to SmileyChris and RLP


Here's the quote, that I mentioned on Sunday, that's been haunting me ever since I didn't respond to having a Passion for the Poor:

"The individual activity of one person with backbone will do more than a thousand people with a mere wishbone."

Black Ops  

9 comments Posted by Andrew

Sorry bout the poor quality. This is what NBC gets up to on the weekend...

I get very scared when I see politics being baptised. For a frightening example of this go and read here. The problem with this is it is too much of a cartoon picture. It's so ridiculous and weird, it's funny. But, the reality is that politics is the driver for a lot of our theology (views about God). Who you vote for says a lot about your views of the Christian faith. I'm treading carefully here because it's easy to step on landmines on these issues. For some people, they can't believe Christians would vote Labour. For other people, they can't believe that Christians would vote National! Within our church we would have people right across the range: from people who vote for the Greens through to people who vote for the Destiny party. I have 2 questions:

1). How do we co-exist? (Jesus prays in John 17:11b - "Holy Father, protect them by the power of your name, the name you gave me, so that they may be one as we are one."

2). Faith and politics are always inter-related because voting is based on convictions just as faith is based on convictions. However, how can faith transcend politics? Could you change who you vote for because of the gospel (e.g. from National to Labour or vice versa)? Or does who you vote for determine your Christian faith?

Will It Blend?  

3 comments Posted by Andrew

Brilliant!

The other day I was listening to the radio, when a regular played song came on. It has quite a catchy beat and I started singing along. Its basically just this guy singing about his girlfriend, and how great she is…. blah, blah, blah. (Aren’t most songs about that these days?!)
Anyway, one of the lines was “She’s always ringing my phone, she’s even got her very own ring tone. If that’s not love, then I don’t know what love is.”
As I was singing along, I couldn’t help but think how glad I was that my God, in whom I have given my life and intend to live my life for, knows a greater love than this guy. The guy that’s singing this song thinks that love is giving someone his or her own ring tone. My God’s kind of love is one in which, he loves me so much that he sent his only son to die for me. His love is so big, that he made a great plan for my life before I was born. He loves every single person in the world with this kind of love.

I am so grateful, that me and the Person that I would most likely sing a song about, that praises them, (just as this one does about the guys girlfriend)- we have such a greater love than giving each other their own ring tone. I feel sorry for whoever wrote that song, because they clearly dont know what real love is! Gods love is awesome!
(No offence to anyone who likes this song – It’s a great song, but yea)

Close to Home  

0 comments Posted by Andrew

I love Real Live Preacher. He is a profound and yet simple writer - unravelling the depths of life in a way that most of us can't - even though we experience them, we can't name them with the clarity he can... He's my favourite author at the moment. He's just written a couple of posts on Foy that in parts are very close to home for me (don't read too much into that, it goes with the territory). If you want to know a little about how easy it is to lose your identity in a church - go and check them out:
Part 1 is here.
Part 2 (my favourite so far) is here.

Shift Happens  

0 comments Posted by Andrew

Following my post on Geekdom, Lauren reminded me not to be afraid of being a 'word nerd' (my new favourite title). BAndy then made connections between 'word nerds' and computer geeks. This clip is for all the computer geeks in the world. Looks like good news BAndy if you're studying I.T.: Shift Happens

Hat Tip: Prodigal Kiwis

Corey Otto, an Australian Indoor Cricket player, was the fastest bowler in the world of Indoor Cricket at the 2004 Indoor Cricket World Cup held in Wellington New Zealand. One News, NZ TV channel, sent a reporter to go and check out just how fast he is. The reporter was fairly cocky and gave Corey some lip. Then he tried to face up to Corey with a bat - bad idea:

Gollygate  

2 comments Posted by Andrew

I've been staying at the Summer St Manse of Ponsonby Baptist. It's a swanky sort of place, full of style and class. But the tension here has been electric - you could cut it with a knife. I innocently came expecting a nice time with friends but found myself embroiled in the turmoil now known as Gollygate! Accusations flying everywhere. Nick (the prosecution) says of Golly (the defendant) "On Thursday Golly (the dog, so named because he’s black) ate an entire apple cake that Julian baked." Go here to find out more...


The fall out of Gollygate has been huge - Nick is refusing to even acknowledge Golly's presence! Now you'd think with a therapist and 2 pastors in the house that Nick and Golly could be shown the way to resolving their their differences. Shake hands, lick each other's faces, sniff each other's butts and get on with it. But no, the tension hovering over Summer St has been like a linguist listening to a George Bush speech! That was until Brian came over for a yoga session. I'd never met Brian but I over the night of yoga and eating pizza I came to love the man - what's not to love about a man who passionately helps you to understand more about Jacques Derrida? (even though he told me I looked 40). Things are different when Brian's in the room - life is good. Brian blew away the dark clouds of Gollygate that surrounded Summer St and now all things have been made new:

Thanks Brian!

Geekdom  

3 comments Posted by Andrew

I've been holed up in a little study corral at Carey Baptist College for the last week. There's books and journal articles everywhere. Now, I could pretend that this is all really oppressive and woe is me but the reality is I LOVE IT! I am a geek and I love reading books and doing study. I am in my element in this pokey study corral. I am a geek and I don't care. I love books and study.

I have books on my desk:
I have another book bag I carry with me with more books in it:
And then there's the stash of books I have in the back of my car that won't fit in my book bag:
I am a geek and I love books!

By the way, if you happen to see Mrs Picard and little Miss 6 year old Picard be extra nice to them. Mr Picard's off fueling his geekiness in the library while they're at home with bad colds. Get better soon female Picards, and then I'll come home....

Here's some more photos from the baptisms the other week. I'm hoping to have some more photos soon of the baptisms and of our famous Indian Night...






I'm up at Carey Baptist College for the next 2 weeks spending some focussed time on a BTh (Hons) dissertation that I'm writing on Baptistic Ecclesiology in the Context of Being a Missional Church. I won't hijack the blog with the details. Great to see Weeza has made it into the blogging world despite being 'computerically challenged'. Perhaps BAndy could be of some help? To any who wanted to know, I've gotten over my illness from Sunday. Preaching with food poisioning is no fun at all! I hope to put up some more photos of the Baptisms soon.

Now, go and check out Lauren Roche's website. Go now and do it! Lauren is a member of our church and was among the 6 awesome people we baptised last Sunday. She is a frequent visitor and commentor to this blog (Lauren, if you're keen to write posts on this blog - let me know). She has written two amazing books on her life and is a truly inspirational person. Lauren's books, so far, are Bent not Broken and Life on the Line - they are inspirational. On the one hand they are an incredibly harrowing read (many parts brought me to tears) because Lauren has been through hell, on the other hand they are an incredibly inspiring and hopeful read (and many of these parts brought me to tears) because Lauren is such a brave and courageous woman that not even hell itself could hold her down. I haven't asked Lauren if this is true, and if you think it isn't Lauren, then please correct me. I wonder if somewhere and somehow in the midst of Lauren's life, God's hand and God's resurrecting power was at work - even when she didn't know it? I have given Lauren's book to a person trying to turn their life around, because Lauren refuses to shrink from being truthful about the ugliness and evil that exists in life while at the same time refusing to give up on hope. This person found her books very inspiring and planned to come to her baptism (having never been in a church for 10 or more years) but at the last minute couldn't make it because of family reasons. Lauren's courage to write about her life from drug abusing teen stripper and protitute to medical doctor helped to give hope to this person's, and many other people's lives and futures.

I love Lauren's excitement for life, her strength, her hope and the ribbon of steel that runs through her that won't compromise on love and hope. Already (see comments on last post), Lauren has reminded us of the significance of staying focussed on the heart of the Christian faith - "Let's not be Christians who tell the world what we are against, but show everyone what we stand for. Rather than shutting down other faiths, let's live The Word and have others say 'I want what they're having'. I'm new to this - perhaps it's all been said a zillion times before. I have a freshness of Faith to believe we can do it. Who wants to start?"

Wow! Who's inspired by this? I certainly am! So who's in? Lauren, and all the people at Napier Baptist, please help to keep us focussed on the main thing and if you ever think I'm shrinking or chickening out of showing the depth and breadth of God's love in Christ, then feel free to give me a swift kick up the bum and get me back on track to keep the main thing the main thing!

Let me not forget to mention Lauren's wonderful husband Murray, who is also a treasured part of Napier Baptist.

Hey ya'll, So, Ive finally added myself to this blog thing, but I SO dont understand how it all works- im so computerically challenged- let me tell you!! I'm hoping that now that Ive made this new post, that my name will appear on the list with all ya'll- here's hoping...
Anyways, hows ya'll doing??- Holidays!!!! fun fun fun- fun for everyone...oh, apart from those that arent on holiday...my bad

"Moments of savage joy are there for all of us to find. If you haven’t seen one lately, you only need to slow down a bit and keep your eyes open. I can give you no counsel beyond that. But if you come across a moment of wild, untamed joy, for God’s sake eat it; drink it; hear it; receive it. This is the stuff of life. It doesn’t get any better."

You've got to read this from Real Live Preacher. With 2 beautiful daughters, I know something of what he describes.

Hat Tip to Maggi Dawn

Hey guys!
Now that I am "super christian girl" I have agreed to join the blog! Haha
It was a really awesome, encouraging and emotional service.
PAndy you did a great job - thanks heaps =)
Tessa got some really awesome photos...







....And there is more where that came from (Theres photos of everyone that got dunked, but I could only fit this many on) , just let me know if you want some.
I know the Beavens got some cool ones too =)




This is an old post that I thought I'd repost in light of our renewed discussion on worship. It's from when I ran a weekend retreat on worship at our church:

"No blood was spilt on the carpet over the weekend. This is no mean feat when you have a room full of people who are very talented and passionate musicians and you are trying to ask questions about the content of some of their favourite songs! We all had a great time exploring what is worship and what are we trying to do on a Sunday morning? We had some very robust discussions at times where we let our differences grow us (I hope). I suggested that Sunday worship is less about creating a certain "experience" for people and more about spiritual formation of the people of God. Less about "getting something out of it" and more about growing a gospel people. Rather than making experience primary and trying to create some emotions we need to be faithful to the gospel (content) and allow that to produce it's own experiences. This will sometimes mean profound thankfulness and joy but other times lament or confession or wrestling with God. If we make experience (especially creating that warm fuzzy feeling) primary we run the risk of abusing the gospel for our own ends (i.e. creating an experience). We need to trust in the power of the gospel to grow a gospel people and allow this to create it's own experiences. My conclusion was that Sunday morning worship is about nurturing and growing a gospel people. Therefore, the content matters to make sure we are growing a gospel people and not just any sort of people.A couple of fantastic and haunting quotes I really like in my research which both come from a journal article by Kevin Vanhoozer called "Worship at the Well" in the Trinity Journal 23 (2002):"We worship what we know. If our knowledge is not deep, our worship won't be either.""Our worship [and prayer] is the index to how well we have understood our faith."And finally a quote from N.T. Wright (via Vanhoozer's article):"If your idea of God...[and] salvation offered in Christ, is vague or remote, your idea of worship will be fuzzy and ill-informed."

I'm a sucker for punishment at times. This weekend we have our baptismal service at church (see post below). However, on Friday (tomorrow) I'm off to Rotorua to catch up with some of the people I trained for ministry with. We try to catch up as a group once a year as a sort of retreat, reflection and refreshment time. We've been in ministry for about 3 years now and it's good to catch up with others who're facing similar stuff as you. We've got George Wieland coming to join us and lead us over the weekend. George was our NT lecturer while we were at college. He's a great guy and a fantastic Christian and communicator. I'm looking forward to it.

So, I go to Rotorua Friday night and race home Saturday night for the baptisms on Sunday. Then, after the service and lunch I head off back to Rotorua to finish the weekend with my friends and come back to Napier on Monday. Any prayer would be appreciated...

I've connected a video of George lecturing at Carey College on Romans to give you a glimpse of what's in store for us




Here's a clip of some of the weirdos I'm spending the weekend with - (as I said, prayer would be appreciated!

We have 6 people who are going through the waters of baptism at Napier Baptist this Sunday. I'd like to pretend that this happens all the time - "oh, just another 6 this weekend is it!" But it doesn't happen all the time in my experience of ministry so far. So, I'm very excited. We've stopped all normal operations to come together as a church and celebrate these people being baptised this Sunday. I'm in the throws of considering an appropriate message for this baptismal Sunday and read this in Gathering for Worship: Patterns and Prayers for the Community of Disciples: “Baptism is an action instituted by Jesus Christ in which God, the believer and the Christian community are all involved. In baptism new believers confess faith and share what God has already done in their lives. Here, there is also a ‘letting go’ in which new Christians abandon themselves to the grace of God and the resurrection power of the one who overcomes the chaos of death and sets our feet on the new path of life. The waters of baptism are a meeting-place where human trust and the life giving acts of God come together.
In baptism the Church celebrates the gospel of salvation through the cross and resurrection of Jesus Christ and the life-giving, new-world-creating power of the Holy Spirit. The local church is again invited to follow Jesus Christ, and is reminded that life in the Spirit, from which all true fellowship and mission flows, is an immersion into the life of the triune God and a patterning after the likeness of Christ.
In baptism, God meets us and calls us to obedience and self-offering, as the forgiveness and grace of God are given tangible form. Here, the believer is incorporated into the Church, the body of Christ. Here, God commissions us for service and witness, and promises us the presence of the Holy Spirit – a promise made explicit by the laying on of hands.”
I thought it was quite a good outline of baptism for Baptists.

For those who have been praying for Luke (see post below), I have just received this update:

Hi Andrew, Thanks for your prayers for Luke.

Luke is home from hospital and feeling the effects of the chemo so please pray for the nausea and vomiting to go and his appetite to return.

Praise God for His mercy!

Hi all, thought i would add something about this worship/song/ issue we've been blogging about further down......I've been doing the OHP for the 9am service lately and something that struck me on sunday as i was reading the words (keeping in mind we'd just been to thirsty the night before) was every song was about God and not one was about 'me' 'I' 'my'. They were "How Great thou art", what a friend we have in Jesus, Becuase he lives, There is none like you...etc etc....and what i realised was that these songs were so much easier to sing along with because they were all about Christ, and Christ never changes, He will always be all those things i was singing about, therefore it didnt matter what i was feeling or what mood i was in, and i didnt have to question whether i was being truthful in what i was singing, (unlike songs such as "I am not ashamed" that was blogged about earlier etc) because those things will always be true for Christ. Yeah, thought it was interesting to note.

HATING THIS!  

4 comments Posted by Andrew

NOT FUNNY! RUN WITH THE BALL INSTEAD OF JUST PASSING IT BUDERUS!



In the light of some comments around this stuff I thought this video might be of interest. Hat tip to Rhett


It's great to have added a few new Napier Baptist contributors. Welcome all. I see Kina's first post has opened up a can of worms in terms of: "can we really sing some of the songs we do with honesty?" What a huge question - thanks Kina! Paul Windsor has posted something about this recently on his blog. Go and check it out here - read the comments too, they're very good (especially the one by Matt).

Edit: Here's the thing we saw at easter camp that I mentioned in the comments below. Hopefully that one works

Hey Yall !!  

1 comments Posted by Clairey

Hi All, I finally made it to the blog !! Looks like this is where its at, I look forward to 'blogging' with you all =)

PRAYER REQUEST  

2 comments Posted by Andrew

I just recieved this urgent request for prayer:

Hi all,

I have had the pleasure to meet a young guy called Luke who is just turned 22 years old. Luke has been diagnosed with cancer and has a tumour that is attached to his heart. Luke is a Christian as are his parents and I have offered to set up a prayer chain for him.

Please please please let me know if you are able to get your youth and young adults praying for Luke and I will keep you informed of his progress..

BENNY HINN  

6 comments Posted by Andrew



I found this clip over at The Batcave It reminds me more of WWE wrestling than Christianity! Benny Hinn's visit to NZ has sparked a few controversies, especially over at Frank Ritchie's blog.

New Blogger!  

8 comments Posted by Anonymous

Having told you all about Thirsty Worship on Sunday morning I had to laugh at myself today! I had a CD playing in my car of songs we are doing this weekend. The song was called "I am not ashamed", with the chorus being "I am not ashamed of the gospel of Your name. I am not ashamed". As I pulled into a carpark, there was a person standing outside the car, and I found myself winding the window up as I turned the stereo down.

I've gotta ask..... how often do we sing things and later find ourselves totally contradicting them? Am i TRULY unashamed if I turn the song down as soon as I see someone who may not approve?

Thirsty Worship: this Saturday, Napier Baptist, 7.30pm.


Paris Hilton has told Barbara Walters from ABC news, in a phone call from prison, that "God has given me this new chance... God has released me."


Let's hope so!


On the one hand I'm thrilled, on the other I'm suspicious. But, I need to be gracious enough to give her the benefit of the doubt that we all deserve.

NEW LOOK  

9 comments Posted by Andrew

Yes, you are at the right site. I thought that I would make the blog a little less dull. Hope you like.

100 POSTS!  

13 comments Posted by Andrew


To celebrate the 100th blog post I've gone about expanding the blog. I've invited 2 more people from Napier Baptist to become contributors. I am waiting for them to sign up and get cracking. Tap Tap Tap (sound of fingers impatiently tapping on desk) - less than subtle hint to those 2! You know who you are...


God's timing is impeccable! Having just finished the below post on John Stott's distinctions between fundamentalism and evangelicalism I received an e-mail about a John Stott's Langham Partnerships extending into NZ. This is very exciting news! My good friend and mentor Paul Windsor has been at the heart of establishing this in NZ. I'm not surprised knowing how much Paul loves and admires John Stott. Here is the guts of the e-mail I received:


LAUNCH OF LANGHAM PARTNERSHIP NEW ZEALAND
Langham Partnership International [LPI], which was founded by Rev Dr John Stott, formerly Rector, All Souls, Langham Place, London, and is currently led by OT scholar and preacher, Dr Chris Wright, is pleased to announce the launch of Langham Partnership New Zealand [LPNZ].
LPNZ will become an affiliate in the worldwide LPI family, which comprises similar ministries in Australia, Canada, East Asia [Hong Kong], UK & Ireland, and the United States [where it is known as John Stott Ministries (JSM)].
LPI’s vision is to see Majority World churches being equipped for mission and growing to maturity through the ministry of Christian leaders and pastors who sincerely believe, diligently study, faithfully expound and relevantly apply the Word of God.

LPI provides scholarships for theological Ph.D. studies to evangelical teachers who will have strategic influence in their home countries. LPI also distributes evangelical books for pastors, theological students and seminary libraries, and facilitates writing, translating and publishing of materials in local and regional languages. Lastly LPI is building movements for biblical preaching in the Majority World.

The launch of LPNZ is a fitting symbol of the passing of the torch, as it comes just after the retirement from public ministry of John Stott after more than sixty years of a local and worldwide preaching, teaching, and writing ministry. In 2005 John Stott was named by TIME magazine as one of the world’s 100 most influential people. John Stott is reported to be delighted at the development of LPNZ.
Chris Wright, Langham Partnership’s International Director says, “I am delighted that, with the formation of LPNZ, not only are John Stott's friends and admirers in New Zealand being given the opportunity to contribute to the fulfilment of his lifetime's vision for the world church, but more importantly, the churches in the majority world will benefit through the continuing growth of these strategic Langham programmes.”

Langham Partnership New Zealand will work along side of, and in active cooperation with Leadership Development International [formerly Overseas Council NZ]. Tony Plews, Executive Director of LeaDev Int’l, will also fill the same role with LPNZ.

This is the culmination of over two years of positive discussions between Chris Wright and LPI and LeaDev. Rev Paul Windsor, Principal, Carey Baptist College [who is now a Board member of both LeaDev Int’l and LPNZ], had met both John Stott and Chris Wright in Australia, and mooted the idea of active cooperation between the two ministries, because their missions are so closely aligned, their theological convictions almost identical, and their values and methods compatible.

Paul Windsor, Principal, Carey Baptist College, Auckland, comments that, “This strategic development brings a NZ-face to the ministry that stewards the legacy of John Stott. In itself that is so exciting. But it also brings together the two ministries that do so much to strengthen leadership development in the Majority World through biblical preaching and theological education. With this opportunity to be involved we Kiwis are brought so much closer to what God is doing in the world where the growth of the church is so great but the resources for the church are so small.”

LPNZ’s first project will be to raise up to NZ$100,000 to purchase two major theological library collections [more than 10,000 volumes], which are available here in New Zealand, for distribution among several theological colleges in Asia.

At the same time LPNZ is very keen to support a new ‘Langham Scholar’ – that is an Asian leader who is accepted into the PhD programme at SAIACS, Bangalore, India, and possibly another who might come to New Zealand for PhD studies through Tyndale-Carey Graduate School, before returning home to teach in their own country.


VERY EXCITING NEWS!! John Stott is one of my heros in Christian faith, an amazing man of God.


Attached to the e-mail was this prayer request from John Stott:
John Stott would like his many friends around the world to know that, having reached the age of 86 in April, he has taken the decision finally to retire from public ministry after fulfilling one final speaking engagement at the upcoming Keswick Convention in July.

He will also be moving from his flat in London, where he has lived for more than 30 years, to a retirement community for Anglican clergy in the south of England, which will be able to provide more fully for his present and future needs. John has made this decision with the strong belief that it is God’s provision for him at this stage.

John will greatly value your prayer for him in the challenges and opportunities involved in this transition. He is also happy to reassure his friends that the Langham Partnership International (or John Stott Ministries, in USA), is well prepared to continue its work, even after his retirement.


A commentor has reminded me of how important I think it is to understand the distinction between fundamentalism and evangelicalism. John Stott has helpfully given 10 helpful distinctions between fundamentalism and evangelicalism in his book Evangelical Truth. I am unashamedly evangelical and I am unashamedly against fundamentalism. His 10 points are below:


"… the evangelical faith is not a synonym for fundamentalism, for the two have a different history and a different connotation. ‘Fundamentalism’, which today is frequently used as a theological smear word, had very respectable origins.
Fundamentalism and evangelicalism
Originally, then, ‘fundamentalist’ was an acceptable synonym for ‘evangelical’. Take as an example Dr Carl Henry’s influential little book The Uneasy Conscience of Modern Fundamentalism, .. In it, while complaining that ‘evangelical Christianity has become increasingly inarticulate about the social reference of the Gospel’, he drew no distinction between fundamentalism and evangelicalism. Gradually, however, fundamentalism became associated in people’s minds with certain extremes and extravagances, so that by the 1950s evangelical North American leaders like Carl Henry himself, Billy Graham and Harold Ockenga were promoting what they called ‘the new evangelicalism’ in order to distinguish it from the old fundamentalism which they had rejected.
Because of this, evangelical Christians are understandably dismayed by such books as Fundamentalism by Professor James Barr and Rescuing the Bible from Fundamentalism by Bishop Jack Spong, which, whether from ignorance, misunderstanding or malice, perpetuate the old identification. They write as if the only choice before the church is between an enlightened liberalism and an obscurantist fundamentalism.
But let it be said here and now, with clarity and conviction, that the great majority of evangelical Christians (at least in Europe) repudiate the ‘fundamentalist’ label, because they disagree with many self-styled fundamentalists at a number of important points.
The difficulty in establishing what these points are is due to the fact that fundamentalism has never clearly defined itself over against evangelicalism or published a broadly acceptable doctrinal basis. In seeking now to do the opposite, namely to distinguish evangelicalism from fundamentalism, I shall no doubt be guilty of generalizing and caricaturing. But I ask my readers to bear in mind that what I am attempting to portray below is not identifiable individuals or groups, but certain contrasting tendencies. I fully recognize that my portrait of fundamentalism may fit an old-style American version, but not some of our contemporaries who retain the label while rejecting some of the substance. Similarly, my portrait of evangelicalism is idealized, for alas! some contemporary evangelicals claim the name but do not live up to the ideal.
There seem to me to be at least ten tendencies to consider.
1. In relation to human thought, fundamentalists of the old school give the impression that they distrust scholarship, including the scientific disciplines; some tend towards a thoroughgoing anti-intellectualism, even obscurantism. Authentic evangelicals, however, acknowledge that all truth is God’s truth, that our minds are God-given, being a vital aspect of the divine image we bear, that we insult God if we refuse to think, and that we honour him when, whether through science or Scripture, we ‘think God’s thoughts after him’ ( Johann Kepler).
2. In relation to the nature of the Bible, fundamentalists are said by the dictionaries to believe that ‘every word of the Bible is literally true’. This is surely a slander, since the adverb ‘literally’ is used here too sweepingly. Yet it cannot be denied that some fundamentalists are characterized by an excessive literalism. Evangelicals, however, while believing that whatever the Bible affirms is true, add that some of what it affirms is figuratively or poetically (rather than literally) true, and is meant to be interpreted thus. Indeed, not even the most extreme fundamentalist believes that God has feathers (Ps. 91:4)!
3. In relation to biblical inspiration, fundamentalists have tended to regard it as having been a somewhat mechanical process, in which the human authors were passive and played no active role. Thus the fundamentalist view of the Bible, as having been dictated by God, resembles the Muslim view of the Qur’an as having been dictated by Allah in Arabic through the angel Gabriel, while Muhammad’s only contribution was to take down the dictation. In this way, the Qur’an is believed to be an exact reproduction of a heavenly original. Evangelicals emphasize, however, the double authorship of Scripture, namely that the divine author spoke through the human authors while they were in full possession of their faculties.
4. In relation to biblical interpretation, fundamentalists seem to suppose that they can apply the text directly to themselves as if it had been written primarily for them. They then ignore the cultural chasm which yawns between the biblical world and the contemporary world. At least in the ideal, however, evangelicals struggle with the task of cultural transposition, in which they seek to identify the essential message of the text, detach it from its original cultural context, and then recontextualize it, that is, apply it to our situation today.
5. In relation to the ecumenical movement, fundamentalists tend to go beyond suspicion (for which indeed there is ample justification) to a blanket, uncritical, even vociferous rejection. The most strident expression of this attitude was seen in the American Council of Christian Churches, which was founded by Carl McIntyre in 1941. Many evangelicals, however, although critical of the liberal agenda and frequently unprincipled methodology of the World Council of Churches, have tried to be discerning, affirming in ecumenism what seems to them to have biblical support, while claiming the freedom to reject what has not.
6. In relation to the church, fundamentalists have tended to hold a separatist ecclesiology, and to withdraw from any community which does not agree in every particular with their own doctrinal position. They forget that Luther and Calvin were very reluctant schismatics, who dreamed of a reformed catholicism. Most evangelicals, however, while believing it right to seek the doctrinal and ethical purity of the church, also believe that perfect purity cannot be attained in this world. The balance between discipline and tolerance is not easy to find.
7. In relation to the world, fundamentalists have tended some-times to assimilate its values and standards uncritically (e.g. in the prosperity gospel) and at other times to stand aloof from it, fearing contamination. By no means all evangelicals escape the charge of worldliness. Nevertheless, at least in theory, they seek to heed the biblical injunction not to conform to this world, and are also anxious to respond to the call of Jesus to penetrate it like salt and light, in order to hinder its decay and illuminate its darkness.
8. In relation to race, fundamentalists have shown a tendency – especially in the United States and in South Africa – to cling to the myth of white supremacy and to defend racial segregation, even in the church. Racism without doubt lingers among evangelicals too. Yet there is a widespread desire to repent of it. Most evangelicals, it can be claimed, proclaim and practise racial equality, originally by creation and supremely in Christ, who broke down the walls of racial, social and sexual separation in order to create a single, united humanity.
9. In relation to the Christian mission, fundamentalists have tended to insist that ‘mission’ and ‘evangelism’ are synonyms, and that the vocation of the church is simply to proclaim the gospel. Evangelicals, however, while continuing to affirm the priority of evangelism, have felt unable to sunder it from social responsibility. As in the ministry of Jesus, so today, words and deeds, proclamation and demonstration, good news and good works supplement and reinforce one another. Their separation, wrote Carl Henry, is ‘Protestantism’s embarrassing divorce’.
10. In relation to the Christian hope, fundamentalists tend to dogmatize about the future, although to be sure they hold no monopoly on dogmatism. But they often go into considerable detail about the fulfilment of prophecy, divide history into rigid dispensations, and also espouse a Christian Zionism which ignores the grave injustices done to the Palestinians. Evangelicals, however, while affirming with eager expectation the personal, visible, glorious and triumphant return of our Lord Jesus Christ, prefer to remain agnostic about the details on which even firmly biblical Christians have differing viewpoints."

As an evangelical I find this very helpful.


The Wittenburg Door is a Christian satire magazine published by youth workers. I love it! It's hilarious and very provokative. Below is an article from their latest issue. The article's called "Jesus was a Homeless Bum". It's available on line at their web site.

By Wendy Noble
May/June 2007
Hi Sis.
Something awful happened in Bible Study yesterday. We were looking at a passage from Luke [9:57-62]. People said they wanted to follow Jesus but they all had reasons why they couldn't do it right then. I think Ali Robinson, our Study Leader, was hoping to inspire us to deeper levels of commitment. I was sitting next to her and I saw where she'd written that across the top of her page. It was underlined three times. As per usual, we went round the group sharing our first response to the passage, and that's when all heck broke out. I said I'd never realized before that Jesus was a homeless bum. Well, it says it right there in the scripture, Sis! "Foxes have holes... but the Son of Man has no place to lay his head." Thelma shouted, "Ali, where do y'all keep the soap? I want to wash her mouth out!" Jeannie Baker put her fingers in her ears and kept moaning, "Blasphemy! Blasphemy!" I tell you, the place erupted. With everyone talking at once, it was hard to hear what was said, but I heard some "in all my born days" and a couple of "never heard such a thing." What hurt was the "she." You know you're in big trouble when they stop using your name and take up with the acid pronoun! When this had gone on for quite a while and Ali still hadn't wrenched back control, I went home. I didn't think anyone had noticed me leave. Ruth Davis, Earl's wife, telephoned this morning. She said she was thinking about me and wanted to say she didn't think I was a heretic. I was so grateful I cried some more. I told her that I was sorry I didn't have the chance to explain, because then I'm sure no one would have said it was blasphemy. You see, Sis, I'd never really thought about that before. It hadn't occurred to me that there was a time when Jesus didn't have anywhere to sleep. I'd never imagined Him sleeping outside, shivering in a park somewhere, living under a bridge. You know? No wonder He really loved Mary, Martha and Lazarus. They welcomed him into their home. When He talked about giving someone a cup of cold water in His name, He knew what it was like to be thirsty and not be able to get a drink from His kitchen. I tell you, Sis, it got me thinking. There were all those people making excuses why they couldn't follow Jesus and He'd already given up everything for them. He gave up His home in heaven and then He gave up His home on earth and they were making excuses. I can't imagine what it would be like not to have a home. What's more, I told Ruth that I had a new appreciation of what Earl did for those homeless men in the park on Friday night. I'm thinking of offering to go with him, next week, if Jim says it's OK. [When I told him all about it last night, he laughed and said the idea of me being a heretic was a hoot. Helpful as always!] You know, I've always been afraid of those men. Now, when I picture them in my mind, I can see Jesus standing there with them, holding His hands over the fire. It changes everything. Ruth said she understood what I was saying. She also said I shouldn't worry about going back to the Study next week as the ladies will have settled down by then. But she thinks I should apologize for using the word "bum" in relation to the Lord even though, technically, it's correct. She says I won't be kicked out of Grace Community. But, I haven't had a visit from the pastor, yet, so would you pray for me just in case?
Love to the kids.
Nelda

YOUTH PASTOR  

0 comments Posted by Andrew

At Napier Baptist we're currently looking for a new youth pastor and in the process of starting to advertise. So, I thought, should I advertise on the blog? Why not! So the advert is below. If anyone is interested or knows someone who might be interested, flick this their way. We'll send a copy of the job description to people who're interested to find out more.


Napier Baptist Church

Part time Youth Pastor

Napier Baptist is looking for someone who is called by God to Love, Feed and Lead Napier Baptist Youth in the ways of Jesus Christ. You will be passionate about the Gospel and passionate about Youth. This is a Part Time Ministry of 3 days a week with a view to grow.

Expressions of interest and for more details, contact us:
Youth Search Committee, Napier Baptist Church, 36 Riverbend Rd, Napier, New Zealand.




Ok, I'd better explain myself a little more from the last post. If you haven't read that one, you'd better go and do it.



As a Baptist I believe strongly in religious liberty - which means that people should never be forced or coerced to believe in something (especially Christianity). God wants people to respond in freedom to the gospel not coersion. I don't understand why it is so important for non-Christian parliamentarians to have to pray to Jesus Christ when they don't believe in him. God wants us to respond in freedom not because we've legislated it. Also, in terms of other religions in our multicultural world - early Baptists vehmently defended the right for people of other faiths to have freedom to exist because they knew what it was like to be coerced or killed for what they believed in (not the State sponsored Church). As a result, Baptists like John Smyth and Thomas Helwys, whilst believing people who didn't believe in Jesus Christ were totally wrong, they defended their right to have religious freedom. In effect saying something like "I might totally disagree with you, but I'll die for your right to say it!"



In terms of Christianity becoming influential, I have no faith in legislating Christianity through existing power structures. It is relying on something completely different than the power of Jesus Christ. The church and the Kingdom grow from being a mustard seed into being a mustard tree only through the power of Jesus Christ and not the power of having the State in our back pocket scratching our back. An example of this is the rise of the earliest Christianity. How did it grow from being such a tiny minority to becoming so large that Constantine had no option but to make it the State religion? In effect, in 300 years Christianity overthrew the empire. Rodney Stark, a sociologist of religion, has researched the growth patterns of the early church in his book The Rise of Christianity. Stark looks at the growth of the church from its tiny 120 person beginnings to an estimated 5 to 7.5 million Christians by the early 300s. Stark shows that a growth rate of about 40 percent per decade would account for the growth of the early church. This translates to 4 percent per year. how did the church grow like this? It refused to commit infanticide on its baby girls (quite common amongst Romans who were wanting a heir) and they refused to leave town when illness and disease struck. Many of the people the Christians cared for survived and in turn became Christians themselves. Christians were known for outcaring everybody else. These were significant factors in overthrowing an Empire. The Kingdom starts as small as a mustard seed and grows to become the largest tree of them all! What if instead of trying to legislate Christianity's greatness we tried to grow it by outcaring everyone else?


I see there's a lot of talk at the moment about prayer in parliament and should or shouldn't we recognise the NZ is a Christian nation. Speaking as a Baptist and someone who studied a lot of church history, I would say whenever the church tries to bring about the Kingdom through the State it is a disaster. Sure, wouldn't it be great if NZ was a Christian nation but I think how we do that is very important. The Kingdom is like a mustard seed that grows into a massive tree. My concern with a lot of talk is that it seems to want to legislate Christianity so that it can be a mustrad tree. NZ is not a Christian nation and whilst Christanity has been influential in NZ, it is historically very debatable as to whether we have ever been a Christian nation. But why should that worry us? Any time the church has relied on the state to become a mustard tree it has been a disaster! Think of the Crusades! Baptists only need to know a little of their own heritage to know how many non conformist Christians were murdered because we didn't follow the State sponsored Christianity. I am totally opposed to using the State to legislate Christianity or turn the church into something great. It is only (and I mean only) by the power of Jesus Christ that the mustard seed grows into a mustard tree. Any other way than the way of Jesus Christ is a disaster!

Mrs Moses  

8 comments Posted by Andrew

I thought this was quite good. I'm sure Margaret can relate to it!


My friend Melissa is a Pastor at Cession Community in Auckland. They ran a Stations of the Cross installation over the Easter period and Melissa (who is amazingly creative) was part of organising it. She's now put an online gallery on her blog of photos from their Stations of the Cross. It's pretty awesome! Go and check it out here


I was struck by a quote Paul gives from Soren Kierkegaard the Danish philosopher:

“The matter is quite simple. The Bible is very easy to understand. But we Christians are a bunch of scheming swindlers. We pretend to be unable to understand it because we know very well that the minute we understand we are obliged to act accordingly. Take any words in the New Testament and forget everything except pledging yourself to act accordingly. ‘My God,’ you will say, ‘if I do that my whole life will be ruined. How would I ever get on in the world?’"

We're currently working through 1 Corinthians 1:18-2:5 and noticing how the church at Corinth is impressed by the rhetoric and wisdom of the Sophists (the megastar windbags (orators) of the 1st century). Oratory was highly prized in Corinth and the Sophists were the superstar gasbags who impressed the crowds with their good looks and their ability to tickle people's ears with the skills of rhetoric (to read a little more about the Sophists of the 1st century go and have a snoop around Bruce Winter's webpage here). To be someone special and powerful in Corinthian society you had to display all the skills of rhetoric (like the celebrity Sophists). But Paul says that's the ways of the scheming swindlers and it's not how God works. God chooses the foolish things of the world to shame the wise so that no one can boast before God (holding our trophies and achievements before God). No doubt in Corinthian society Paul's message of Christ crucified seemed foolishness and moronic (the Greek word for foolishness is moria and we get our English word moron for its root). This is moronic to Corinthian society who love their power, wisdom and abilities, but Paul says Christ crucified is the power of God and the wisdom of God. Because the Christian faith is centred on the crucified one, we find that wisdom is found in humility, strength is found in weakness and power is found through love. In the light of who God is, Corinthian society, with its love of power and rhetorical wisdom, is what is exposed as moronic, not God.

There is no other 'Christ' than the crucified Christ. But we, and I especially include myself here, are scheming swindlers who like to trade up from the crucified Chrsit to follow something less scandalous and less moronic and follow something more acceptable to us and our ways. Martin Luther King said of the church of his day: "The contemporary church is often a weak, ineffectual voice with an uncertain sound. It is so often the arch supporter of the status quo. Far from being disturbed by the presence of the church, the power structure of the average community is consoled by the church’s silent and often vocal sanction of things as they are." Check it the full quote at William Willimon's blog here.

There's some things I don't agree with John Howard about but I admire his stance on the Australian Cricket team touring Zimbabwe. He has taken a strong stand against what I see as an evil and oppressive dictatorship. Read about it here.

Last week I attended a pastor's meeting where Larry Baldock came to speak to us about his petition in regards to the current legislation to repeal section 59 of the crimes act. Whilst many people may be frustrated at what seems to be the govt legislating how people should parent, I was very confused when I was told that churches should be "leading the way" in getting this petition signed. Apparently we should be getting our people to go out into shopping malls etc on weekends and get signatures for this petition. I left the meeting a little troubled. Why should churches be leading the way on this petition (getting people to oppose the bill that would repeal section 59)? As I write this post I have just received another e-mail from people attached to this petition demanding that our church should be arranging people to take to the streets to get signatures for this petition! I can understand our people signing this petition as concerned citizens, but what is so gospel about petitioning the govt to allow us to smack our children that churches should "lead the way"? I left the meeting wondering why should churches be "leading the way" on this petition? Jesus NEVER spoke about smacking. In fact it didn't even register on his Richter scale. Jesus' self definition was the Prince of Peace. Jesus ALWAYS sided with the poor, the outcast, the oppressed and the least. What is so gospel about this petition that churches should "lead the way" as if the very gospel itself is being threatened by this bill? I can understand people in our church signing this petition as concerned citizens but for us as a church to "lead the way" it has to be a specific threat to the gospel Jesus proclaimed and I just don't think it is. Why do we want to "lead the way" on this petition about smacking (something Jesus NEVER spoke about) instead of leading the way on petitioning our govt to be more involved and concerned about global poverty and injustice (something that Jesus spoke about A LOT)?

To be sure, my issue isn't with concerned citizens in our church signing the petition (and I am not opposing Christians signing this petition as concerned citizens) my issue is that I have been told that our church should "lead the way" on this petition and recruit our people to get signatures but I just don't see it as a gospel imperative (compared to issues like poverty and injustice). We seem to be picky and choosy about what we protest about. For example, churches were at the forefront of protesting against the Civil Unions Bill, which is fine (even though homosexuality is something Jesus never spoke about in a culture where it was rampant). But, at exactly the same time our NZ cricket team were leaving to tour Zimbabwe, a country being oppressed by an evil leader and suffering chronic injustices (something Jesus spoke a lot about) and churches never battered an eyelid or considered protesting! I don't oppose anyone being involved in signing petitions or protesting, nor am I suggesting Christians shouldn't be involved in the debate about homosexuality. My cry is that our churches "lead the way" on the things that were priorities for Jesus Christ.

If I have missed something here can someone please help me out...

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